Andreas, so krass war das nicht gemeint

Hallo Andreas,
so war das nicht gemeint. Natürlich weiß ich das Baral auf dem Ascogebiet dankenswerter Weise unermüdlich forscht und damit natürlich noch viele Arten kennt, wovom wir "Normalsterbliche" noch nichts gehört haben. Auch Deine umfangreichen Mollisia-Untersuchungen mit dem hervorragenden Schlüssel wollte ich nicht in Abrede stellen.
Mir ging es nur darum etwas leichtere Handwerkszeuge, wie der bekannten Literatur zum Durchbruch zu verhelfen. Natürlich soll man auch bei sogenannten, allseits bekannten Pilzarten auf Abweichungen achten und die Fundumstände gut dokumentieren um spätere Erkenntnisse, Agrenzungen, Artränge etc.nachprüfen und festlegen zu können, das ist absolut unstrittig und wird von jedem verantwortungsvollen Mykologen auch so gehandhabt.Ohne die Forschung,käme es zum Stillstand und das wäre irgendwann das Ende.

Fazit:"Ich war vielleicht ein bißchen zu pauschal mit meinem Einwurf", also Asche auf mein Haupt!!

Herzliche Grüße Detlef

Hallo Detlev,
abweichende Meinung? Das geht wohl schlecht, Du kannst doch nicht meiner
Aussage widersprechen, dass Zotto noch weitere Arten kennt.
Dass die (noch) nicht kartiert werden können ist logisch, es sind ja nicht
alle Taxa beschrieben. Aber dass die Mykologie deshalb der Kartierung
zuliebe stillstehen soll?
Dass meinst Du natürlich nicht so, will Dich ja nur ein bißchen ärgern mit
der überspitzten Formulierung
Aber es ist eben auch bei so scheinbar klaren Arten nicht ganz unwichtig,
auch mal Belege anzufertigen. Auch "der" Reizker war mal ein
ganz klare Art .... und "der" Riesenschirmling und
"die" Goldgelbe Koralle und und und. Hätte man entsprechende
Belege mit wenigstens einer kurzen beschreibung, dann könnte man die
früheren Angaben meist noch den heutzutage unterschiedenen Arten zuordnen.
Wieso sollte der Wissensfortschritt ausgerechnet vor Ascocoryne
haltmachen? Oder nimm meine Lieblingsgattung Mollisia. Wieviele Arten
werden da geschlüsselt? In den "Nordic Macromycetes" der
skandinavischen Entsprechung des "Moser" ist gerade mal Mollisia
cinerea aufgeführt, sonst nix. In Pilze der Schweiz sind es vielleicht 20
oder 30. Ich habe in meinem Arbeitsschlüssel bereits 70 Arten
verschlüsselt, und es gibt viel viel mehr, mindestens 150 oder 200
(Mitteleuropa)! Statt der allgemein so bekannten 30-40 Orbilia-Arten kennt
Zotto inzwischen 250 (weltweit)! Gerade die inoperculaten Ascomyceten sind
in der Artenzahl nur zu einem Bruchteil bekannt. Gut möglich, dass wir nur
10-20% der einheimischen Arten bereits kennen.
Selbst beim Steinpilz gibt es in Europa mehr als die bekannten 5 Arten,
vermutlich 8 oder gar 10.
Fürs kartieren soll das natürlich weder entmutigen noch bremsen. Aber man
sollte im Hinterkopf behalten, dass Funde vernünftig zu dokumentieren
mindestens genauso wichtig ist wie "blindes" Draufloskartieren.
Ach ja, wer sich den Ascocoryne-Schlüssel mal anschauen will, er folgt gleich
im Anschluss. Ich kann ihn auch gerne als WORD-Datei jedem schicken, der
ihn haben will, da er von Zotto und Guy's CD "In vivo veritas"
stammt, die verteilt werden darf.
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KEY TO ASCOCORYNE
H.O. Baral + E. Weber, Oct. 2000
Highly constant among the many studied fresh collections proved the lipid
pattern (multiguttulate versus 2(-4) very large and several small LBs) in
the mature (aseptate) ascospores which readily allows to recognize the two
sections (cylichnium vs. sarcoides). The immature spores, however, contain
many small LBs (multiguttulate) in both sections. Due to strong
coalescence in dead material, this striking difference is exclusively
constant in living material and should especially be examined from spores
within living asci. The two sections can further be distinguished by the
consistency of the apothecia (distribution and abundance of gel), the
presence of crystals, by the presence of conidiomata, and by the type of
spore germination. Only the latter two features have so far been used in
the literature. The genus is somewhat variable concerning paraphysis shape
and content, spore size and shape, and ascus size. No differences between
the species could be found in the type of apical apparatus.
Spore germination: Ascospores are always aseptate and with high lipid content
within the living mature asci. Both formation of septa and germination
(including budding) occur only in overmature spores. Overmature spores are
those which have undergone post-maturation either outside the asci after
active discharge, or within dead asci which have not managed spore
discharge. Thus conidia are never forcibly ejected and cannot be termed
ascoconidia as is frequently done in this genus, and apothecia in optimal
developmental state may completely be devoid of septate spores and
conidia. In order to obtain germinating spores and conidia in great
abundance, apothecia are kept in a moist box for some days or weeks (at
10-20°).
In contrast to this, overmature material of A. sarcoides may contain some or
many living asci with overmature spores (with 1-septum and c. 5-15 µm long
germ tubes, partly as conidia in chains). This situation is clearly
unphysiological, and effective spore discharge seems most unlikely with
such germ tubes.
The purplish-violet pigment stains the medium distinctly blood-red when
adding KOH (cylichnium).
KEY
1. Living ascospores with 2(-4) large symmetrically arranged LBs (1.5-)
2.5-4.5 µm diam. which are clearly evident among the many smaller ones,
*11-29 x 3.8-6 µm, ends rounded or tapered, overmature with 0-1-3 septa,
producing moniliform, c. 15-40 µm long chains of limoniform to
(terminally) globose, firmly cohering blastoconidia 2-6.5 x 1.8-3.6 µm,
[solitaria nicht??!!], conidia not disarticulating; hymenium deep
purplish-violet or light greyish-brown, often associated with clavate to
stipitate conidiomata, asci IKI 3BB or RB, arising from croziers; whole
medulla strongly gelatinized (gel hyaline, macroscopically appearing
glassy, apothecia therefore highly gelatinous (elastic), strongly
compressible), composed of very narrow hyphae (*/1-3 (-5) µm) embedded in
usually abundant gel (gel sheaths in young apothecia or near excipulum
refractive), entirely without crystals, subhymenium non-gelatinized ->
2 (section sarcoides)
1. Living ascospores constantly multiguttulate (mixture of many small and
medium-sized LBs, the latter 1-2 (-2.7) µm diam. and distributed through
the whole spore), *16-29 (-35) x 4.4-6 (-7) µm, ends always ±tapered,
overmature with (1-)3-5(-6) septa, producing subglobose (-ellipsoid), not
cohering phialoconidia *2-3 ((-4.5)) x 1.9-2.4 µm on extremely short
phialides (0.2-1.2 x 0.6 µm), sometimes also on germ tubes; hymenium deep
purplish-violet, never producing distinct conidiomata; outer medulla (c.
100-200 µm) medium gelatinized, hyaline (apothecia therefore only slightly
gelatinous), asci IKI 3BB, arising from croziers or from simple septa
-> 4 (section cylichnium)
2. Hymenium light greyish-reddish-brown with carneo-violet tint, (1-) 2-6
(-12) mm diam., with rather long, conical stalk; spores with 2(-4) large
LBs 1.5-2.5 (-3) µm diam., overmature 0-1-septate, germ tubes not
moniliform; asci IKI BB; apices of paraphyses cylindrical to medium
clavate, */(1.5-) 2.5-4.5 µm, upper 8-30 µm medium refractive
multiguttulate, conidiomata (Coryne albida) stipitate-capitate, c. 1-3 x
.... mm, singly but gregarious, pale flesh-coloured, cells of conidiophore
medium to strongly inflated (bulb/onion-shaped to globose), containing a
refractive KOH-soluble crystal, conidia *3-3.5 x 1-1.2 µm, slightly to
medium allantoid, 1 minute LB in each end; medullary hyphae sometimes
multiguttulate; on wood of stems and branches of Fagus, Quercus, Betula,
Carpinus, on cones of Pinus (only anamorph), slightly to strongly rotten,
in shady, humid woods, e.g. in creeks -> A. solitaria
2. Hymenium deep purplish-violet, 3-22 mm diam., sessile to rather
long-stalked, ascospores overmature mainly 1-3-septate, germ tubes
strongly moniliform (chains of cohering conidia), conidiomata absent (?or
cushion-shaped) or clavate or flabelliform, conidiophores narrowly fusoid
to cylindrical, without plasmatic crystals -> 3
3. Ascospores with quite constantly ± tapered ends, *(14-) 17-27 (-28.5) x
4.4-6 µm, slightly to medium curved, homopolar, large LBs 2.8-4.5 µm,
conidia of germ tubes *3.2-3.6 µm wide; asci IKI 3BB, paraphyses mostly
very strongly capitate, upper cell *6-27 x (3-) 4-7 µm, ±without contents,
apothecia 3-10 mm diam., sessile, 1-5 mm thick, lentiform-cushion-shaped,
margin ± appressed to substrate, deep purplish, sometimes associated by
small conidiomata (0.5-1 mm high, irregularly cerebriform, pale
rosaceous-purpuraceous, non-gelatinous) growing in separate populations
(phialides *10-15/1.8 µm, conidia *4-4.5 x 1 µm, medium allantoid); on
very rotten wood or bark of branches of Fraxinus, Fagus, Alnus, shady
woods, creeks or Alneta -> A. disciformis sp. nov.
HB 3121, 6772, 6788a, 6810, 6838
3. Ascospores with constantly ± rounded ends, *11-23 (-27) x 3.8-5.5 µm,
partly heteropolar, two large LBs (2-) 2.5-3.5 (-4) µm diam., conidia of
germ tubes *1.8-2.8 µm wide; asci IKI RB/BB; paraphyses slightly to medium
inflated; apothecia 3-22 mm diam., on a ± conspicuous stalk, c. 4-10 mm
high, obconical-turbinate, stipe often distinct, not rarely higher than
wide, margin not appressed to substrate, always associated with
conidiomata (Coryne dubia, these occur mostly in much higher number than
apothecia): stipitate, clavate to flabelliform conidiomata, without
delimited head, c. 2.5-15 x 1-5 (-15) mm, often fasciculate, deep
purplish-violet, phialides *9-15 (-20) x 1.3-1.5 µm, conidia *(2.8-)
3.3-5.5 x 1-1.4 µm, slightly (to medium) allantoid, 1 minute LB (or
0.6-0.8 µm) near each end, some with small polar appendage so that conidia
at first loosely cohere in chains; on wood or often on bark of branches,
stems and stumps of Fagus, Quercus, Alnus, Prunus, Carpinus, Castanea,
Acer, Pinus, Larix (never on Picea?), often undecayed or only slightly
rotten (rarely ??strongly rotten), in creeks or shady woods, ?slightly
xerotolerant -> A. sarcoides
4. Spores *16-20 (-22) x 4.4-5 µm, subfusoid, 2 LBs 1.8-2.3 µm & 2 LBs
1-1.8 µm among ± many small ones (intermediate sizes frequent), overmature
(1-) 3-septate, conidia on spores *2-3 x 2-2.4 µm, with 1 large LB,
sometimes also on long germ tubes (rarley as chains!); medullary hyphae
below hymenium +2-4.5 µm wide, in distinct gel, no crystals; paraphyses
around ascogenous hyphae non-gelatinized???; asci *175-222 x 9.3-10.5 µm,
arising from croziers; apices of paraphyses cylindrical, */2-2.4 µm, with
elongate VBs; apothecia 2-5.5 mm diam.; conidiomata ?slimy mass near
apothecia, phialides *13-15 x 1.8-2.5 µm, conidia *2.5-3 x 1.3 µm,
±straight, on wood of branch of Picea, very rotten -> A. conifericola
HB 4248 (Nürtingen)
4. Spores (19-) 22-30 (-35) x (4.2-) 5-6 (-7) µm, always ±fusoid, overmature
3- or 4-5(-6)-septate, inner medulla (500-1000 µm) of rather dense texture
of wide hyphae (*5-12 (-17.5) µm) embedded in little non-refractive gel,
pale purpuraceous, nearly always with abundant crystals and druses
(hyaline or pupuraceous, mainly below subhymenium), paraphyses around
ascogenous hyphae mostly gelatinized, asci *10.5-14.6 µm wide -> 5
5. Spores (20-) 24-29 (-33) x (4.2-) 5.2-5.6 µm, large LBs in spores 1-2
(-2.7) µm diam., spores overmature mainly 3-, also 4-5-septate, paraphyses
slightly clavate, with ± large 1-2refr. VBs, asci *208-230 x 11.3-12.3 µm,
with croziers, on coniferous wood, e.g. in creeks, in cluture only
subglobose conidia -> A. "Evi"
5. Spores of same size, large LBs in ascospores 1-1.5 (-1.8) µm diam.,
overmature (3-4-)5(-6)-septate, in culture both allantoid and subglobose
conidia produced -> 6
6. Asci arising from simple septa (always with basal downward protuberance);
conidia 2.5-3 x 1.9-2.3 µm, with 1 large and/or several ±small LBs;
paraphyses slightly to medium (-strongly) capitate/clavate, upper cell
*33-60 x 2.8-4 or 4-5.3 µm, upper 6-27 µm (2-3refractive) multiguttulate;
apothecia 1.5-20 mm diam., 1-5mm tall; on wood of branches of Alnus,
Fagus, Picea, ?Carpinus, colline & montane, mostly in humid woods,
e.g. creeks -> A. cylichnium var. deuncinata var. nov.
HB 4253, 6255a, 4340, 6793, 6791, 6800b, 6839.
6. Asci arising from croziers; conidia *(1.9-) 2.3-3 (-4.5) x (1.5-) 1.7-2.2
(-2.4) µm, either 4-8 small LBs or 1 large; paraphyses not or only
slightly clavate, upper cell 21-35 x 1.7-3.5 µm, upper 8-24 µm 1-2refr.
multiguttulate; medullary cells with large SCBs (3-5 µm) ?near margin;
apothecia 4-22 mm diam.; on wood of stems, stumps or branches of Fagus,
Salix, Carpinus, Fraxinus, Quercus, Populus, also not rarely on Abies,
Picea, Pinus, little to strongly rotten, in shady humid woods, especially
in creeks -> A. cylichnium var. cylichnium
Table of characters
asci (*) crz IKI ascospores (*) LB septa grm med cry ans aps ap an par ht og
disciformis 146-185(190?) x (10.5)11.5-12.3(13) + BB (14)17-27(29) x 4.4-6 µm
2 1-3 mo gel - cr us f m 3-4 d wb
sarcoides (120)140-180(200) x 9.3-13((14.5)) + RB (11.5)14-21(26) x
(3.8)4.2-5(5.3) 2 1-3 mo gel - cl st m f 0-3 cd wb
solitaria 115-155 x 9.5-11 + BB (11)14-17(19) x 4.1-4.8 µm 2 1 hy gel - st st
r f 1 cd wc
conifericola 175-222 x 9.3-10.5 + BB 16-20(22 x 4.4-5 m (1)3 co gel - sl st f
? 1 c w
Evi 208-230 x 11.3-12.3 + BB (20)24-29(33) x (4.2)5.2-5.6 m 3(5) co th + - st
r - 1 c w
cylichnium 175-275 x 10.5-13.5 + BB (20)22-28(30) x (4.7)5-6(6.4) m (3)5 co
th + - st f - 1 cd w
deuncinata 160-265 x 10.5-14.6 - BB 22-30 x 5-6.3(7) m (3)5(6) co th + - st f
- 1 cd w
Expl.: crz (croziers); IKI (Lugol); LB (large lipid bodies): 2 = 2 large LBs,
m = multiguttulate; grm (germination): hy = normal germ tubes, mo =
moniliform germ tubes with globose conidia in terminal chains, co = single
subglobose conidia; med (medulla): gel = whole medulla highly gelatinous,
of narrow hyphae, apothecia highly elastic, th = main upper part little
gelatinous, of thick hyphae, apothecia rather tough, only slightly
elastic; cry (oxalate crystals in medulla); ans (anamorph shape): sl =
slimy mass, cr = cerebriform-cushion-shaped, non-gelatinous, cl = clavate
to flabelliform, st = stipitate with globose head; aps (apothecial shape):
st = +/- stalked, us = unstalked, wholly appressed to substratew; ap
(apothecia): f = frequent, m = medium frequent, r = rare; an (anamorph):
dto.; par (paraphyses): apex 1 = slightly inflated, 3 = strongly inflated
(capitate); ht (host): c = coniferous, d = deciduous; og (organ): b =
bark, w = wood, c = cones.
Excluded taxa: Ascocoryne javanica (Penz. & Sacc.) Thind & Singh, J.
Ind. Bot. Soc. 51: 50, fig. 3 C-D (1972)
= Coryne javanica Penz. & Sacc., Malpighia 219 (1901)
The single Himalayan collection described by Thind & Singh (1972) sounds
like a mixture between the A. sarcoides- and A. cylichnium-group: The
abundant conidia within the asci apparently do not form chains while the
spore size would best fit to A. sarcoides. Ap. -6 mm diam, -2.5 mm thick,
reddish-purple, asci 125-160 x 8-11 µm, J+, spores 12-17 x 4-5 µm,
guttules not reported, 1-3-septate with age, "budding off secondary
spores while still within the ascus", apices of paraphyses abruptly
pyriform, -3 µm diam, medulla of loose textura intricata embedded in gel,
hyphae -7 µm wide. On dead angiospermic wood.
Thind & Singh 1969 berichten bei cylichnium mächtige Medulla ohne Gel mit
hyphen -8µm dick, äußere Schicht gelatinisiert, schmalhyphig (-1.6 µm).
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beste Grüße,
Andreas